Women's Forum Mother/Daughter Panel
The Law Center is fortunate to have had several daughters of its
alumnae from the past half-century follow in their mothers' footsteps
by pursuing the study of law at Georgetown. To commemorate these multi-generational
family contributions, the Law Center organized a Mother/Daughter panel
at the Women's Forum weekend. Moderated by Associate Professor Naomi
Mezey, the panel explored how mothers who have grown to prominence
in law over the course of their careers have influenced their daughters'
career choices.
The following questions and answers, asked of and answered by the
mothers and daughters on the panel, reveal how the study and practice
of law has changed both at Georgetown and in the broader legal profession.
They ask why daughters chose to attend their mothers' alma mater,
and why they pursued an education and profession that had proven difficult
and challenging for the women of their mothers' generation. Finally,
they pursue the issue of mentors, and ask how women, and mothers in
particular, have helped young women lawyers with their careers.
Mother/Daughter Panel:
Moderator: Associate Professor Naomi Mezey.
Panelists: Judith Barnett, L'85 - principal consultant with PA
Consulting Group, Washington, D.C., Mariam (Mimi) Vogel, L'01; Elizabeth
Costle, L'80 - Vermont commissioner of banking, insurance, securities
and healthcare administration, Caroline Costle, L'94 - associate,
Rosenthal, Rich & Costle, Washington, D.C.; Joan Domike, L'70
- senior trial attorney, Internal Revenue Service, Julie Domike, L'86
- partner, Wallace, King, Maretto & Bronson, Washington, D.C.;
Mary Lupo, L'74 - circuit court judge, Palm Beach County, Florida,
Irene Ricci, L'99 - clerk, federal district court, Southern District
of Florida; Maureen O'Bryon, L'75 - partner, Hogan & Hartson,
Washington, D.C., Megan Rupp, L'97 - assistant counsel, Washington
Post; Laura Rothstein, L'74 - Dean of Brandeis Law School, University
of Louisville, Julia Rothstein, 2L.
QUESTION: [to daughters] What was the role that your mothers
played in helping you decide not only whether you wanted to go to
law school, but why you wanted to come to Georgetown? Was your decision
to go to law school influenced at all by the fact that your mother
was a lawyer?
Megan Rupp, L'97
My decision was very much influenced by the fact that mother was a
lawyer …I think because my mother was a lawyer I was a little
bit ambivalent about whether I wanted to be a lawyer or whether this
was a path I was choosing for my own reasons or not. So I went to
law school for a year and actually left for two years and taught high
school, which was a fabulous experience and I thought 'being a lawyer
has got to be easier than this.'
Irene Ricci, L'99
The only sense where my mom influenced my decision to come to law
school, is that I had already been familiar with the school because
both of my parents actually graduated from the Law Center and they
were very involved as alumni. They would always bring me along, when
I was at Georgetown undergrad, to different functions and so I was
fairly familiar with the school before I decided even to go to law
school or applied. It was my top choice.
Mimi Vogel, L'01
I chose Georgetown for very different reasons than my mom did. I loved
what the school was offering by the time I was looking at law schools,
which was 100% different than what it was offering from my perspective
when she was in school. I was most interested in the way they take
advantage of the community here. I had worked in D.C. for a few years
before law school and I wanted to go to a law school that knew how
to take advantage of that.
QUESTION: [to mothers] How did the mothers feel - watching
their children do the thing that they had done before them - and doing
it in the same place. Were you surprised that your daughter went to
law school? Were you worried that she was going to law school? Were
you glad?
Maureen O'Bryon, L'75
I was surprised that my daughter went to law school because I think
she had observed that I worked very hard and she wasn't so sure that
she wanted that path for herself, but I was not surprised because
she was born to be a lawyer. I was certainly ambivalent because I
think the challenge that many of us face is how to make our lives
work: to have that balance between pursuing a career and at the same
time have this balanced life that we all crave.
Judith Barnett, L'85
I think going to law school is the greatest thing a woman can do in
life. Whatever she does before, whatever she does after, to me that's
the road map. The reason I wasn't too surprised was that Mimi started
law school at seven with me. Mimi came with me at night. I couldn't
afford babysitters and so she understood night by night what it was
like to be a lawyer. Of course at the end she turned to me and said
'Great news, I'm going to be a radiologist,' but eventually she saw
the Holy Grail…In so many ways it's the most versatile calling
and in some ways there's no greater calling.
QUESTION: [to daughters] I want to ask the daughters who have
been out of law school practicing, how your mothers have influenced
your professional choices, either as a way of inspiration or as a
correction of mistakes you've seen made?
Caroline Costle, L'94
I come from a family of lawyers: Father, grandfather, mother, uncle,
husband. Of all my relatives who do law, I am the only one who actually
practices law. Everyone else did some sort of public policy type of
thing. When I came to law school I thought I was going to do what
everybody else had done…My mother has always encouraged me to
be very independent, to not do necessarily what other people have
done and to set my own goals and expectations. She's done that not
only by saying that my entire life but also by doing that herself
and serving as a role model. The fact that I truly broke with the
family trend to do something very different than what I expected but
also something I find fulfilling is due in large part to the confidence
that I had in my own independence and judgment.
QUESTION: [to mothers] Mothers, can you think of ways in which
your daughters have either influenced your professional choice or
even a particular decision you've made in your practice or way of
organizing your professional life?
Judith Barnett
I think that our daughters have been a great source of wisdom - even
when they were small. When my daughter was small, because of the circumstance,
I was a single mom for many years, I was trying to influence her indirectly
to be a lawyer and I was telling her great things and showing her
pictures. One day she looked at me and she said, 'You want a lawyer
in this family, go to law school,' and that's a true story and that's
exactly what I did.
Joan Domike, L'70
I went to law school while my children were in high school. One of
the pleasant memories I have of my three children is that they had
the dinner on the table for me every night when I came home from law
school.
Mary Lupo, L'74
Irene was born during my second year here at the law school. She has
been an extremely inspiring person. I considered resigning to spend
time with my children because I had not been able to due to career
obligations. I discussed it with the children and neither of them
wanted me home! I owe a great deal of my continuation of my judicial
career to Irene.
QUESTION: [to mothers] Are daughters, and other young women,
dealing with the same issues the mothers dealt with going through
law school? Are these universal issues or are they generational; or
to what extent are they both?
Laura Rothstein, L'74
I do think the struggles are the same and similar, and it makes a
very big difference if you're at a law school that has female presence
on the faculty and in key professional positions and I feel really
lucky for my daughter that she is at a law school where that experience
is there.
Mary Lupo
It's shocking to me that people are still asking women who apply for
legal jobs the same question. They're still asking 'what are you going
to do with your children?' I was horrified that it's 2001 and birth
control, children, how you're caring for your children, are you having
any more children, are still issues that are either subtly or not
so subtly discussed.
Elizabeth Costle, L'80
I feel that my daughter grew up absolutely believing she could be
president of the United States if that's what she wanted to be, and
those of us raised predominantly in the '50s didn't really think that.
So there's a real generational change in that sense.
QUESTION: [to daughters] In what ways do the daughters feel
like the issues that you deal with now are the same ones your mothers
did, and to what extent do you take things for granted?
Mimi Vogel
My law school experience could not have been a more different experience
than my mom had because I got to study law full time, mostly because
I didn't have a child but also because there are so many more accommodations
for women now.
QUESTION: [to all] What do you think young women who are entering
the profession should know? What expectations do they have that are
wrong? What advice would you give them?
Elizabeth Costle
Women should actively seek mentors and should initiate the mentoring
process. Law in many ways can be quite isolating both intellectually
and personally unless you reach out to people who are more senior
and can mentor you. Many people, if you really make an effort, will
participate.
Irene Ricci
My advice would be to take golf lessons because a lot of deals, from
what I hear, are done outside of the office. And if you don't know
how to play golf and all of the young male associates do, you are
going to miss out on a lot of opportunities.
Julie Domike, L'86
You should continue to push for change in private practice in particular.
Things have changed in private practice, if only slightly, in large
part because you increasingly find women in hiring positions. We have
to recognize that and capitalize on it. I think that women, more than
men, are going to be the ones to make changes happen in a law firm.
Judith Barnett
Nothing is as rigid in law as it was 40 years ago. Take advantage
of public service and non-profits. One doesn't need to be buried under
the floorboards of a law firm. I feel that firms have become more
flexible. You don't have to be a litigator for the rest of your life.
Be creative about your own law experience.
QUESTION: [to daughters] Daughters, what do you hope to find in mentors
and do you care if they are women?
Julia Rothstein, 2L
It's most important to me that they have done something that they
really believed in even if it wasn't necessarily the most popular
thing to do. I'm very proud that my mother has stood by her commitment
to diversity in education, which is something she believes very strongly
in and wasn't always the most popular opinion to have. I'm very glad
that I have her as a role model because I am very proud of her for
being a good role model and a good friend to me.
Megan Rupp
Seek out mentors who love what they do and who want to share that
love. My mother has been a great mentor to me because she's been challenged
and excited by her practice her whole life and it made me excited
about law.
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